Martin Moe On December 8, 2003, as part of PetHobbyist.com's Sixth Annual Chat Week, Martin Moe was our guest on AquariumHobbyist.com Martin Moe has a masters degree in marine biology, and has worked as lifeguard, a teacher, a fishery biologist, a marine fish breeder, and a writer. He began breeding marine fish, pompano, in 1969 and then developed the techniques for breeding clownfish in 1972. He started Aqualife Research in 1973 with clownfish and goby culture and then moved the company to the Florida Keys in 1975. There, the company continued to breed clownfish and other species, but concentrated on developing a method for breeding the large Atlantic angelfish, the French and the gray. This effort was biologically but not economically successful. The company moved to Walker's Cay in the Bahamas in the mid 1980s and concentrated on commercial clownfish culture. Martin became a bit "burned out" with running a fish hatchery and in the late 80s, and turned to writing and publishing books with his wife Barbara. Barbara was very good for Martin. They met in 1959 over a cup of coffee; she married him, put him through school, had three kids, edited and published their books, and generally kept the whole show on the road.
PHPhoenix: Welcome to AquariumHobbyist's 6th Annual Chat Week! Tonight we are pleased to welcome Martin Moe, author of The Marine Aquarium Handbook, The Marine Aquarium Reference, and numerous other titles as our special guest! Martin has prepared a presentation on "Breeding Fish at Home (clownfish, gobies, and dottybacks)", and he is going to paste it to the room so enough time will be allowed for Martin to answer all your questions afterward. PHPhoenix: Tonight we are going to be using protocol, and at this time I would like to go over the use of protocol. To ask a question type a ? to make a comment please type a ! and wait to be acknowledged. Your name will then be added to the queue, and you will be called upon in turn to ask your questions. Please hold your questions until the end of the presentation, at which time we will begin the queue, thank you. Welcome Martin!
aquarius_nr: Martin, It is always nice to hear your presentations at the MACNA conferences. I look forward to them every year. I have a question regarding the reefs in the Keys, mainly if the urchin population is incresing again in order to combat algae growth, and is there any Elkhorn Coral left in sufficient numbers? Martin Moe_nr: I'll answer that one later.... PHSplendensr Welcome Martin, we're glad you could join us Martin Moe_nr: Breeding Fish at Home (clownfish, gobies, and dottybacks) Martin Moe_nr: Introduction I could write pages and pages on this topic, in fact, I already have. It is difficult to condense such an intricate topic into a coherent and succinct presentation in the space and time allotted, so what I think will work best is to first present the basic outline (below) of the physical structure and the procedures and actions involved in breeding dottybacks, Martin Moe_nr: clownfish, and gobies (applicable to other species as well) in a small home based hatchery. Then I’ll take this outline and fill it in with a brief description of the structure or procedure. You can add to this outline from other sources of information as pertains to your particular project. The following will give you a brief overview of the subject and Martin Moe_nr: then you can comment and question and I can try to fill in the details that pertain to your particular situation, or interest, or add to your insightful comments. Martin Moe_nr: Hatchery Structure Brood stock Larva rearing Grow out Martin Moe_nr: Food preparation Post larva Juvenile Adult Algae and rotifer culture Brine shrimp hatchery Martin Moe_nr: Breeding Procedures Establishment of the brood stock Physical environment Chemical environment Martin Moe_nr: Nutrition Spawning requirements Maintenance and development of the eggs Hatching Martin Moe_nr: Larva recovery Larva rearing Handling late larva, metamorphosis, and early juveniles Martin Moe_nr: Grow out considerations Grow out tank requirements Feeding Environmental structure Potential disease problems Martin Moe_nr: Hatchery Structure Brood stock. Clownfish and gobies are easy to spawn. As with other small substrate spawning fish, you have to provide: Martin Moe_nr: 1. An adequate substitute for their natural nutrition. 2. An adequate substitute for the physical structure required for spawning. (branching coral, a den hole, a flat surface, etc.). 3. An aquatic environment with an acceptable range of lighting and water quality that will provide the parameters required for spawning. Martin Moe_nr: Once you have established an acceptable environment, the fish will usually do what comes naturally and spawn. Clownfish form strong pairs, the male is the smaller and guards the eggs and takes care of them. The larger female patrols the area and guards the male and the spawn stite. Martin Moe_nr: Dottybacks and gobies are small, usually aggressive, variably secretive fish. They seem to form loose pair bonds that are most expressed at courtship and spawning. At other times the pair bond is evidenced more as tolerance rather than cooperative living as with clownfish. Unlike clownfish, orchid dottybacks will also spawn in tanks holding large Martin Moe_nr: aggregations of juveniles that are becoming sexually mature. Several males may develop and spawn with various females in different areas of the tank; a sort of harem situation develops. Serious rearing efforts, however, require keeping a male and female in a small, covered tank, 20 gallons is good, with a lot of structure that can serve as hiding areas for Martin Moe_nr: the female and spawning dens for the male. The male can be very aggressive toward the female so it is important to have a lot of structure in the tank so the female can get away from the male when she need to do so. Good spawning dens can be made from PVC pipe. Martin Moe_nr: Although a separate brood stock tank is best for observations, control, and recovery of the larvae, successful spawning and larva recovery can be done in a reef tank, but with some difficulty and less success in larva recovery. Martin Moe_nr: Larva rearing A separate tank is required for larva rearing. 10 gallons will work for small numbers, 10 to maybe 50 or so larvae, 20 to 30 gallons is required for large numbers, a 100 or more. Martin Moe_nr: Grow out At and after metamorphosis the juveniles require a bottom environment. In home hatchery situations it is best to transform the larva tank into an intermediate grow out tank by adding live rock and pvc structure to the larva tank. Within a couple of weeks, Martin Moe_nr: the juveniles should be transferred to a larger grow out tank, 30 to 50 gallons depending on numbers, set up with live sand and pvc structure. (pvc pipe is good structure because the juvenile dottybacks cannot sequester themselves in tiny holes and it can be removed from the tank without struggling to remove the small fish from their hiding holes. Martin Moe_nr: Food preparation Along with the proper physical and chemical environment, this is the key to successful rearing of marine fish. Early larvae – enriched rotifers Martin Moe_nr: Late larvae – enriched rotifers, enriched brine shrimp, copepods, wild plankton, shaved shrimp particles are all useful. Some specialized larval foods may also be good just before metamorphosis. Martin Moe_nr: Post larva – shaved shrimp, some processed frozen and flake foods, juvenile enriched brine shrimp Juvenile – shaved shrimp, some processed frozen, variety! Adult – same as juvenile Martin Moe_nr: Algae and rotifer culture - Basically important for successful rearing of larval fish. See F. Marini’s recent articles in A.A. I found that I could easily maintain rotifer cultures with a vegetable juice formula. Omega-3 fatty unsaturated acids (and waxy esters) are probably the component in wild plankton (mostly the early developmental stages of copepods) that Martin Moe_nr: makes the difference in death or survival of larval dottybacks. Selection of the right micro algae to culture (Nannochloropsis oculata) and/or the right commercial supplement will make the difference between success or failure in dottyback culture without wild plankton. Martin Moe_nr: Brine shrimp hatchery – Simple half-gallon plastic soft drink bottle hatchery works well. Martin Moe_nr: Breeding Procedures Establishment of the brood stock – Clownfish and dottybacks are sexually indeterminate as juveniles. Gobies are genetically determinate sexually. As they age and approach sexual maturity, the largest clownfish will become a female while the largest dottyback will become a male. Get several of the smallest individuals you can find and place them Martin Moe_nr: in a covered tank with a lot of structure. Observe them carefully and remove any harassed individuals. Within a few months, a breeding “pair” (a male and female that tolerate each other, like some marriages) will form. The male and female clownfish will “hang out” together and behaviorally interact. The female seems to attack the male and the male then PHSplendens: For everyone that just entered, we are seeing Martin Moe's presentation, and he will answer questions afterward. So please hold your questions until then, thank you. Justyn: are these from your own oberservations/ Justyn: oh, ok Martin Moe_nr: appeases the female by tilting back, exposing his belly and making a “chattering’ noise. When they are ready to spawn, both male and female scrape and clean a spawning site by biting at the rock surface. They usually spawn late in the day and the female lays a round nest of eggs ranging from about the size of a quarter (small nest, about 200 eggs) up to a Martin Moe_nr: nest that can be 4 inches in diameter (a large nest, about 1500 eggs). The eggs hatch in 7 to 9 days depending on temperature and species and the male fans the egg mass during hatching which helps the larvae to escape from the egg. Hatching occurs at night, usually a hour or two after the lights go out. They may spawn about twice a month. Martin Moe_nr: The male dottyback selects a den area and then courts the female. He entices her to enter his den where spawning occurs. The male tends the resulting egg mass and the eggs hatch Martin Moe_nr: in four days, at night. They spawn again two days later. 400 to 800 eggs are usually produced. The male barely tolerates the female between and after spawns and it is important to give her places to hide from his intolerance. PHPhoenix: Tonight we are going to be using protocol, and at this time I would like to go over the use of protocol. To ask a question type a ? to make a comment please type a ! and wait to be acknowledged. Your name will then be added to the queue, and you will be called upon in turn to ask your questions. Please hold your questions until the end of the presentation, at which time we will begin the queue, thank you. Martin Moe_nr: Physical environment – A lot of structure and den structures for the dottybacks. Clownfish generally require only a sheltered area such as a flower pot or a tile tilted against the side of the tank. Good lighting, reef quality lighting not necessary, temperatures in the high 70s to low 80s F, Martin Moe_nr: Chemical environment – good water quality important. Martin Moe_nr: Nutrition – see above. Dottybacks require a lot of enrichment in the diet of the mid larval stage. I found that wild plankton made all the difference in my rearing work with orchid dottybacks. I supplemented with wild plankton roughly between days 8 to 20. I was not successful without wild plankton, but then I did not make a great effort at rotifer Martin Moe_nr: enrichment. Clownfish can easily be brought through the larval stage with just rotifers and brine shrimp, but be careful to feed only the amount of brine shrimp necessary for survival. Too much brine shrimp nauplii will cause metabolic problems. Enrichment of the rotifers and brine shrimp with OMEGA 3 fatty acids (Seleco) is recommended. Martin Moe_nr: Spawning requirements – regular feeding, lots of structure Martin Moe_nr: Maintenance and development of the eggs – the male takes care of this. His slime on the eggs (perhaps some antibiotic peptides are included here) seem to keep the eggs in good shape. He can take care of the eggs much, much better than any aquarist. Leave the eggs with him, he’ll take care of them and hatch them very well. It may take him a few tries Martin Moe_nr: before he figures everything out. You can usually see the clownfish spawn, and you’ll know when the male dottyback has eggs in his care when he seldom leaves his den. Martin Moe_nr: Hatching – the male does this at night, usually about an hour or two after the lights go out. A really interesting process. The larvae pop off the rock under the male clownfish and stream out of the den of the male dottyback and accumulate near the surface. Martin Moe_nr: Larva recovery – Shine a small flashlight at a corner of the tank, turn off water flows (don’t forget to turn them back on!), and the larvae will accumulate in the light. Use a dip Martin Moe_nr: cup or a siphon to collect the larvae. You won’t be able to get them all, but no problem in getting enough for any rearing work. Transfer them to the larval tank that is already set up with water and air stone. Martin Moe_nr: Larva rearing – Separate tank required, use just a bare tank and one or two air stones to move water around. A black plastic cover around the tank is good for providing a background to make seeing the food organism by the larvae easier. Add algae (if possible), not a lot, just make the water a very light green, the day before hatch. Add Martin Moe_nr: rotifers, about 3 to 5 per ml to the tank the morning of the day after hatch. Dottybacks go through rotifers like a ten year old goes through sneakers, so watch carefully and add rotifers as often as required. (Depending on the number of larvae and the size of the tank). Martin Moe_nr: Handling late larva, metamorphosis, and early juveniles – Larval fish can be moved if necessary, but this is not good. They shouldn’t be moved until well after they have developed their juvenile color and are acclimated to the bottom. They can then be moved with a soft fine mesh net like most other fish. Add structure to the larval tank when they Martin Moe_nr: begin to pick up color and start to stay in the corners of the tank. Small pieces of live rock provide structure and biological filtration. Pvc pipe pieces add good and easily removable structure. After all or most, depending on numbers and tank size, of the larva have metamorphosed, they can be moved to a grow-out situation. Martin Moe_nr: Grow out considerations Grow out tank requirements – A tank, 20 to 50 gallons, set up with live rock, live sand, whatever auxiliary filtration suits you, works fine. Again, a lot of structure! Feeding – as above Environmental structure – Live rock (minimize rock with tiny holes), ceramic structure (coffee cups?), pvc pipe, etc. Martin Moe_nr: Potential disease problems – This is a big topic and beyond a detailed treatment here. Most serious, protozoan parasites (Amyloodinium), and bacterial toxins (toxic tank syndrome) are the most rapidly lethal of the problems I have encountered. Keep an extra tank handy so that the juveniles can be moved quickly and treated if necessary. Martin Moe_nr: For more information on rearing the orchid dottyback see my 1997 book on the subject, titled Breeding the Orchid Dottyback; An aquarist’s journal. Available at Amazon.com. PHSplendens: Ok, we are now ready for questions. If you have a question please type a ? if you have a comment please type ! you will then be added to the queue and called upon in turn. Lyra: ? PHMaribou: yes lyra go ahead FishinAggie03: ? Lyra: Hi Martin! Do you find that any of these is harder to breed than the other, and which one would it be? Rouen: ! Martin Moe_nr: The dottybacks are the hardest, but just because of the nutritional requirements of the larva. The clownfish are probably the easiest. jeffb: ? PHMaribou: FishinAggie go ahead FishinAggie03: How much could I apply from your orchid dottyback book to breeding neon dottybacks, Pseudochromis aldabraensis?? Martin Moe_nr: A lot, I think... I haven't done other species of dottybacks, but from what I understand from Bill Addison, the orchids are about the hardest. PHMaribou: Rouen go ahead Rouen: good job PHSplendens.. and nice presentation Martin! aquarius_nr: ? FishinAggie03: ? Martin Moe_nr: Thanks PHMaribou: jeffb go ahead jeffb: how do you recognize toxic tank syndrome? Martin Moe_nr: In clownfish, the small juveniles all face in the same direction and sort of shimmy when they swim, they begin to get very thin (perhaps kidney failure) and then drift to the bottom. THe only "cure" I have found is to move them to a clean tank as soon as possible. PHMaribou: aquarius go ahead jeffb: thanks Lyra: ? aquarius_nr: Do you think that Centropyge angels in Hawaii can ever be produced in sufficient numbers, and how difficult is to to rear these fish compared to the easier clowns, dottybacks, and gobies Martin Moe_nr: A good question. Charles Laidy jsut spent a weekend with us and he thinks that they will be able to produce commercial numbers of pygmy angels in a maybe three years. So far all successfull angelfish rearing has been done with wild plankton, a serious limitation. (except for some pond culture of large angels in Tiwan) PHMaribou: FishinAggie go ahead FishinAggie03: Any secrets on coaxing clowns to spawn (particularly Premnas biaculeatus)?? Martin Moe_nr: On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 the most difficult, Clownfish are a 2 and pigmy angels are 9.8 PHMaribou: Lyra go ahead Lyra: I read somewhere that clowns are in the damsel family, can these breeding procedures be used to breed damsels? Martin Moe_nr: Yes.... and no... Damsels have very small eggs that hatch in 3 days. I have reared jewelfish but I had to use wild plankton. I think most damsels are closer to angels in rearing difficulty. Tide Man 101_nr: ? PHMaribou: Tide Man go ahead jeffb: ? aquarius_nr: ? Tide Man 101_nr: Ive heard that maroon clowns catn switch sex whats the real truth? Martin Moe_nr: Well they all start out as indeterminite. they go through a male phase and then become female if they don't pair up with an existing female. A male that loses his female will, or can, turn into a male PHMaribou: jeffb go ahead FishinAggie03: ? jeffb: Do you think that there will come a day when all clownfish availabe are c/b Martin Moe_nr: I think we are moving in that direction. I doubt that all will be captive bred in the future unless regulations on importation of wild caught fish are inacted. I think we could get to maybe 80% cb. PHMaribou: aquarius go ahead jeffb: ? aquarius_nr: I have a pair of Stonogobiops yashia in a 12 gallon aquarium with a pistol shrimp. They all reside in the same burow and once a month they will hide for up to 8 days with the larger of the 2 only appearing when food is offered. I would assume that the smaller one is guarding eggs, and they spawn regularly, but can see no eggs or fry due to their burrow. What are the breeding habbits of this genera? Martin Moe_nr: This I don't know... Never worked with this species. But you could very well be correct. It sounds good. Check the tank at night, about an hour or two after lights out, with a flash light aimed through the tank. If fish larvae are present, you will see them in the beam of the light. Justyn: a? PHMaribou: FishinAggie go ahead FishinAggie03: Would Nanochloropsis be your preferred algae?? Martin Moe_nr: I have used a variety of algae. After a while, in most home based hatchery, the species of algae changes and you usually get a mixture. But yes, Nanochloropsis is a good species to use. PHMaribou: jeffb go ahead jeffb: Will you be at IMAC or MACNA this year? FishinAggie03: ? Martin Moe_nr: I will be at MACNA, I have no plans for IMAC at this point. PHMaribou: FishinAggie go ahead :) FishinAggie03: Nemo: percula or ocellaris?? I think ocellaris, because of the thin black lines, but others think percula. Unfortunately, can't count his dorsal spines. =] aquarius_nr: ? jeffb: ? Martin Moe_nr: True, He keeps his dorsal to himself. I would guess ocellaris. You Know, in real life, Nemo would have become a male, and spawned with his father who has turned into a female. I guess they didn't want to deal with that.... PHMaribou: aquarius go ahead aquarius_nr: Sorry its off topic but is the urchin population in the keys gaining strength again to combat the algae problem, and is there any Elkhorn Coral left in the keys. In your view is this based on global warming or pollution? FishinAggie03: ? Martin Moe_nr: Ahh.. The urchins are not coming back in any numbers, they remain very few and scattered. THe Elkhorn Coral is in bad shape. It is not extinct but is effectively ecologically extenct. I know of some stands of Elkhorn but the situtation is bleak. Martin Moe_nr: Global warming is perhaps the big bear. Pollution can be battled if the environment is compatable with the temperature range expected for the species. PHMaribou: jeffb go ahead :) jeffb: how do you feel about the introduction of Glofish into the market? Martin Moe_nr: Glofish.... Interesting. I think since it is genetic, that they are here to stay. Wether it is a fad or a process that will "enhance" the hobby remains to be seen. Martin Moe_nr: I have mixed feelings on wether glofish are good or bad. In a way, the bug eyed goldfish is the precurser to glofish Justyn: ? PHMaribou: FishinAggie go ahead :) FishinAggie03: How important is algae (Nori, Spirulina, etc.) in adult clownfish and dottyback diets?? Martin Moe_nr: On the algae in the diet. I think it is more important for clownfish than dottybacks. In nature stomach contents for clownfish are about 20% algae. I'm not sure about dottybacks. We always add about 15 to 20% vegatable matter to the frozen fish diets we make up. PHMaribou: Justyn go ahead Justyn: Do you think it will become more of a common practice of collecting marine species in the larva stage and rearing them in captivity? Or do you see captive breeding dominating the field. FishinAggie03: ? Martin Moe_nr: Captive breeding for sure. Actually one can collect the eggs of wild spawns, but you never know what you will raise, sort of like a box of chochlets. (cant spell chocklets). Larval fish can't withstand the collection procedue, but post larva can. There are only a few locations where post larvae can be collected in the numbers and species appropiate to the hobby. The numbers marketed from this source will be limitted. Captive breeding will domante. PHMaribou: FishinAggie go ahead FishinAggie03: I've heard that clowns going through metamorphosis can take an "impression" from adult clowns as far as coloration goes. eg. If a misbarred adult is in the tank with the maturing larvae, will the larvae become misbarred also?? Have you ever heard of this, and if so, is this true or not?? aquarius_nr: ? Tide Man 101_nr: ? Martin Moe_nr: Interesting. I haven't heard this one before. I doubt that it is true. The pattern for coloration of juvenile clowns is set in the late larval, early post larval stage and there aren't any adults around at this point. I have found that when condions are not optimum in the larva rearing tank, miscoloration is most common. PHMaribou: aquarius go ahead aquarius_nr: Why were so many dottybacks offered in the trade initially by C-Quest, ORA, TMC, and other companies deformed in the mouth area, because of aggression? Martin Moe_nr: Malformations in the head area of captive bred fish are most caused by inadequate nutrition in the larval stage. I didn't have that in the orchid dottybacks because I fed wild plankton. PHMaribou: Tide Man go ahead :) Tide Man 101_nr: I have a small system that is in a very uninsulated garage. What are some of the better techniques for keeping the temp balanced (insulating tanks individually more heaters, etc...) Martin Moe_nr: Temperature can be tricky. Water is slow to gain and slow to lose heat. It was always a battle. I found that with small sytems, it was easiest to use closed systems and control the water temperature by controling the room temp. And bring water change supplies up or down to the room temp before making the exchange. FishinAggie03: ? PHMaribou: FishinAggie go ahead FishinAggie03: How soon do you think all(or most) collecting of fish and corals will be stopped?? aquarius_nr: ? Martin Moe_nr: I don't think it will be. It is a global trade and there will always be a source of animals from some location. Also, captive breeding is at the point where the hobby can exist with captive breeding and some wild collection. The greatest effect regulation will, or would have, is if the developed nations prohibited import of all wild caught ornimental marine organisms. PHMaribou: aquarius go ahead FishinAggie03: ? aquarius_nr: How's your fish room coming, and are you working with any new and exciting species or just playing around? Martin Moe_nr: OOO... That's a difficult topic. Unfortunately, I haven't yet gotten the fish room constructed yet. I really want to work with the pigmy angels, and some odd dottybacks also. But I am working on the rewrite of the Reference book and I know that if I drift off into fish work, I'll never get the book finished. So when it is done, hopefully next spring, I'll start work on the fish room. PHMaribou: FishinAggie go ahead FishinAggie03: In a multi-tank system, containing clown pairs(1 pair per tank), do pairs that are actively spawning release any type of pheromone into the water that could perhaps induce reluctant pairs into spawning?? Martin Moe_nr: Good question. I've often wondered about this. I'm sure that chemicals flow from the spawning process, but I don't know if it has any effect on other pairs within sniff range. It certainly could. FishinAggie03: ? PHMaribou: FishinAggie go ahead :) FishinAggie03: What are the most distinguishing characteristics between sebae's and clarkii's?? PHSplendens: Everyone we have time for a few more questions aquarius_nr: ? Martin Moe_nr: You know, I've reared thousands and thousands of Clarkii's of every color pattern there is, but I never had the opportunity (yet) to work with sebae's. As far as I can tell, however, the sebae's are more like the saddlebacks in general shape, while the clarkii's have a higher profile. PHMari |
